(Vol. ii., pp. 89. 194. 248. 280. 330. 362.)

The dispute about the Collar of SS., between Mr. J. Gough Nichols and Armiger, is, as Sir Lucius O'Trigger would say, "a mighty pretty quarrel as it stands;" but I have seen no mention by either writer of "the red sindon" for the chamber of Queen Philippa, "beaten throughout with the letter S in gold leaf:" or the throne of Henry V. powdered with the letter S, in an illuminated MS. of his time, in Bennet College Library, Cambridge. I fancy there will be some difficulty in reconciling these two examples with the theory of either of the disputants. When Armiger alludes to the monument of Matilda Fitzwalter, "who lived in the reign of King John," I presume he is aware that the effigy is not of that period. I do not think any of the seekers of this hidden signification can be said to be even warm yet, much less to burn.

J. R. PlanchÉ.

Collar of SS.—As I conceive that the description of this Collar by your correspondent C. (Vol. ii., p. 330.) is not strictly correct, I forward you drawings of two examples: No. 1. from the monument of Sir Humphrey Stafford (and which is the general type); No. 2. from that of the husband of Margaret Holand, Countess of Somerset (Gough's Funeral Monuments). The latter example might have been called a Collar of 8, 8, were it not that that name is less euphonious than SS. The collar was worn by several ladies. (See the work above quoted.)

B. W.

While the origin of the Collar of Esses is instructively occupying your correspondents, allow me to direct your attention to the enclosed paragraph extracted from the Morning Post of the 18th instant, from which it appears that Lord Denman's collar has been "obtained" (Qy. by purchase?) by the corporation of Derby for the future use of their mayor. I wish to know, can a Quo warranto issue to the said mayor for the assumption of this badge? and if not, in whom does the power reside of correcting this abuse, if such it be?

"The Gold Chain of the Lord Chief Justice of England.—On Wednesday week, at a meeting of the corporation of Derby, the mayor stated that the chain he then had the honour to wear was the one worn by the Lord Chief Justice of England, and that it had been obtained from Lord Denman by the corporation for all future chief magistrates of the borough. We understand the corporation obtained the chain upon the same terms as it would have been transferred to Lord Campbell, if his lordship had taken to it from his noble predecessor."—(Quoted from Nottingham Journal, in Morning Post, 18th Oct. 1850.)

F. S. Q.

The inclosed paragraph, extracted from the Morning Post of last Saturday completes the history of the municipal collar of the corporation of Derby, concerning which I recently proposed a Query. The right to purchase does not, however, establish the right to wear such a decoration.

"The Insignia of Mayoralty.—Considerable excitement prevails just now in many municipal corporations respecting the insignia of mayoralty. At Derby the mayor has recently obtained the gold chain worn by Lord Denman when Lord Chief Justice. In reference to a question whether or not the chain was a present, a correspondent of the Derby Mercury says, 'I am sorry to admit, it was a bargain; it cost 100l., and is paid for. The chain is the property of the corporation, and will grace the neck of every succeeding mayor. The robes did not accompany the chain; they are bran new, gay in colour, a good cut, and hang well; they are private property, consequently not necessarily transferable. Every mayor will have the privilege of choosing the shape and colour of his official vestment, and can retain or dispose of it as he may deem proper. It was suggested that the robes should be the property of the corporation, but a difficulty arose, from the fact, that mayors differ as much in their bodies as they do in their minds, so that one measure would not conveniently fit all. Economically speaking, the suggestion was a valuable one, but the physical difficulty was insurmountable. It has been hinted that a wardrobe of habiliments for different sized mayors might be kept on hand at the Town-Hall, but as the cost would be great, and the arrangement would partake too much of the customary preparation for a fancy ball or masquerade, it was thought objectionable. The Liberal corporation have, therefore, very properly resolved on throwing no obstacle in the way of Free Trade, and it is their determination to enable all mayors, in the selection of their vestures, to buy in the cheapest market and sell in the dearest.'"—Morning Post, Oct. 26. 1850.

F. S. Q.

As I was the first to open the fire on the very puzzling subject of the SS. Collar, which has led to more pleasant and profitable, though warm discussion, than ever any person could have expected, it seems now to be time for some to step forward as a moderator; and if I be allowed to do so, it will be to endeavour to check the almost uncourteous way in which our Armiger friend has taken up the gauntlet on the question.

If, Sir, you admit severe and sneering criticism, it will, it may be feared, tend very considerably to mar the influence and advantage to be drawn from your useful pages, which are intended, I conceive, for calm, friendly and courteous interchange of useful information. Without vituperating the lucubrations of Mr. John Gough Nichols, or sneering at those who "pin faith on his dicta," which have much merit (Vol. ii., p. 363.), it would be surely possible for Armiger to advance his own views with good temper and friendly feeling.

I have also a word to say to Mr. Nichols on his remarks on Mr. Ellacombe's view. He imputes to Mr. E. ignorance of the "real formation of the collar." He could only mean that the S hook or link gave the idea of such an ornamental chain; and I believe he is correct: which ornament the taste of the workman would adopt and fashion as we now have it, with the insertion of another link both for the comfort of the wearer, and for variety in the construction.

A series of SSes (SSS) by themselves would certainly be a galling badge, whatever honour might be considered to be conferred with it.

B. (original),
in future SS., as my initial has been
usurped by some unknown friend.

October. 30. 1850.

Collar of Esses.—I am glad to see the interest shown by your correspondents upon this curious subject, and the various opinions expressed by them as to the actual formation of the collar; the signification of the letter, if a letter be intended (of which I think there can be no reasonable doubt); and the persons who were privileged to wear it. The first two questions will for ever occasion discussion; but allow me to suggest that one step towards the solution of the third, would be a collection in your pages of the names of those persons who, either on their monumental effigies or brasses, or in their portraits or otherwise, are represented as wearing that ornament; together with a short statement of the position held by each of these individuals in the court of the then reigning monarch, seeming to warrant the assumption. Some notices of this sort have been already given, and your antiquarian correspondents will readily supply others; so that in a little time you will have obtained such a list as will greatly assist the inquiry. It may serve as a commencement if I refer to the atchievement of Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk, in the reign of Richard II., a representation of which is given in ArchÆologia, vol. xxix. p. 387., where the Collar of Esses is introduced in a very peculiar manner.

Edward Foss.

DANIEL DE FOE.

Having been much interested with Daniel Defoe's description of a Gravesend Tiltboat in the year 1724, as recorded by Alpha in Vol. ii., p. 209., I think some of your readers may be pleased to learn that it is quite possible that "it may be a plain relation of matter of fact," as De Foe was engaged in the business of brick and tile making near Tilbury^[1], and must consequently have had frequent occasion to make the trip from Gravesend to London. That De Foe was so engaged at Tilbury we learn from the following Proclamation for his apprehension, taken from the London Gazette, dated St. James's, January 10, 1702-3:—

Whereas Daniel de Foe, alias Fooe, is charged with writing a scandalous and seditious pamphlet, entitled The Shortest Way with the Dissenters. He is a middled siz'd spare man, about forty years old, of a brown complexion, and dark brown-coloured hair, but wears a wig; a hooked nose, a sharp chin, grey eyes, and a large mole near his mouth; was born in London, and, for many years an hose-factor in Freeman's Yard, Cornhill, and is now owner of the brick and pantile works near Tilbury Fort, in Essex. Whoever shall discover the said Daniel de Foe to one of Her Majesty's principal secretaries of state, or any one of Her Majesty's justices of the peace, so as he may be apprehended, shall have a reward of fifty pounds, which Her Majesty has ordered immediately to be paid on such discovery."

He soon gave himself up; and having been tried, he stood in the pillory with great fortitude: for soon after he published his poem, entitled A Hymn to the Pillory, in which are the following singular lines:—

Referring to a design of putting the learned Selden into the pillory for his History of Tithes, he says smartly:—

This original poem ends with these remarkable lines, referring to himself:

De Foe, however, was afterwards received into favour without any concessions on his part, and proceeded straight onwards in the discharge of what he deemed to be his duty to mankind. He certainly was an extraordinary man for disinterestedness, perseverance, and industry.

W. Crafter.

Gravesend.

"ANTIQUITAS SÆCULI JUVENTUS MUNDI."

(Vol. ii., pp. 218. 350.)

T. J. and his Dublin friend (Vol. ii., p. 350.), appear to refer, one to the Latin version, the other to the original English text of Lord Bacon's Instauration; and, oddly enough, the inference to which either points, as a reason for disbelieving in the previous existence of the phrase "Antiquitas" &c., extends not to the authority consulted by the other. Thus, the circumstance of "ordine retrogrado" being printed also in Italics, is true only in respect of the English text; while, on the other hand, "ut vere dicamus" is an expression to be found only in the Latin.

But it may be doubted whether the originality of the phrase "Antiquitas sÆculi juventus mundi" is, after all, worth speculating upon. In the sense in which Lord Bacon used it, it is rather a naked truism than a wise aphorism. It does not even necessarily convey the intended meaning; nor, if unaccompanied by an explanation, would it be safe from a widely different interpretation. A previous correspondent of "Notes and Queries" had termed it "this fine aphoristic expression;" and yet, when Lord Bacon himself expands the thought into an aphorism, he does so without recurring to the phrase in question, which is a tolerably fair proof that he did not look upon it as a peculiarly happy one. (Novum Organum, lib. 1., Aphorismus LXXXIV.)

T. J. infers that if the phrase were a quotation it would have been preceded by "ut dictum est" rather than by "ut dicamus"—but even if it had been introduced by the first of these forms, it does not appear that it would thereby have been proved to be a quotation; because there are instances wherein Lord Bacon directly refers to the source from which he professes to quote, and yet prefers to give the purport in his own words rather than in those of his author. Thus, in citing one of the most exquisite and familiar passages of Lucretius, he introduces it by the prefix, "Poeta elegantissime dixit." And yet what follows, although printed in italics with every appearance of strict quotation, is not the language of Lucretius, but a commonplace prose version of its substance. (Sermones Fideles, De Veritate.)

With reference to Lord Bacon's works, there are two Queries which I wish to ask.

T. J.'s friend mentions a rare translation into English by Gilbert Wats, Oxford, as existing in Primate Marsh's library. Query, Of what is it a translation?

In Lord Bacon's life, by William Rawley, it is stated that his lordship was born in a house "infra plateam dictum Le Strand juxta Londinum."

Query, Was the Strand ever known as Le Strand, similarly to Adwick-le-street in Yorkshire?

A. E. B.