“I am a reporter for the Tribune, and have been for seventeen years. I am also a shorthand reporter. I got to the Haymarket meeting, on the 4th of May, about half-past seven. I went all around the Haymarket Square from Desplaines to Halsted, saw a few people on the street, but no meeting. Later on I saw some people going north on Desplaines beyond Randolph. I went over there, and in a little while Mr. Spies got up on the wagon and said Mr. Fielden and Mr. Parsons were to make a speech, but they hadn’t come. Spies got down off the wagon and went toward Randolph Street. He was gone perhaps five or ten minutes. As he passed me in coming back, I asked him if Parsons was going to speak. I understood him to say yes. Then he got up on the wagon and said: ‘Gentlemen, please come to order.’ I took shorthand notes of his speech, as much as I could. I had a notebook and a short pencil in my overcoat pocket and made notes in the pocket. My notes are correct. Some of them I can read, some I can’t. I don’t recollect what he or the others said without my notes.

“Before Spies commenced to speak somebody in the crowd suggested that the meeting should go over to the Haymarket, but Spies said no, that the crowd would interfere with the street-cars. Here is what I have of Spies’ speech:

“‘Gentlemen and fellow workmen: Mr. Parsons and Mr. Fielden will be here in a very short time to address you. I will say, however, first, this meeting was called for the purpose of discussing the general situation of the eight-hour strike, and the events which have taken place during the last forty-eight hours. It seems to have been the opinion of the authorities that this meeting has been called for the purpose of raising a little row and disturbance. This, however, was not the intention of the committee that called the meeting. The committee that called the meeting wanted to tell you certain facts of which you are probably aware. The capitalistic press has been misleading—misrepresenting the cause of labor for the last few weeks, so much so’—there is something here unintelligible that I can’t read; some of it went off on the side of my pocket. The next is: ‘Whenever strikes have taken place; whenever people have been driven to violence by the oppression of their’—something unintelligible here—‘Then the police’—a few unintelligible words, then there were cheers—‘But I want to tell you, gentlemen, that these acts of violence are the natural outcome of the degradation and subjection to which working people are subjected. I was addressing a meeting of ten thousand wage slaves yesterday afternoon in the neighborhood of McCormick’s. They did not want me to speak. The most of them were good church-going people. They didn’t want me to speak because I was a Socialist. They wanted to tear me down from the cars, but I spoke to them and told them they must stick together’—some more that is unintelligible—‘and he would have to submit to them if they would stick together.’ The next I have is: ‘They were not Anarchists, but good church-going people—they were good Christians. The patrol wagons came, and blood was shed.’

“Some one in the crowd said, ‘Shame on them.’ The next thing I have is: ‘Throwing stones at the factory; most harmless sport.’ Then Spies said, ‘What did the police do?’ Some one in the crowd said, ‘Murdered them.’ Then he went on: ‘They only came to the meeting there as if attending church.’ ... ‘Such things tell you of the agitation.’ ... ‘Couldn’t help themselves any more.’ ‘It was then when they resorted to violence.’ ... ‘Before you starve.’ ... ‘This fight that is going on now is simply a struggle for the existence of the oppressed classes.’

“My pocket got fuller and fuller of paper; my notes got more unintelligible. The meeting seemed to be orderly. I took another position in the face of the speaker, took out my paper and reported openly during all the rest of the meeting. The balance of my notes I have not got. From what appears in my report in the Tribune, I can give you part of what Spies, Fielden and Parsons said. It is, however, only an abstract of what they said. So far as it goes it is verbatim, except the pronouns and the verbs are changed.

“The balance of Spies’ speech is as follows (reading): ‘It was said that I inspired the attack on McCormick’s. That is a lie. The fight is going on. Now is the chance to strike for the existence of the oppressed classes. The oppressors want us to be content. They will kill us. The thought of liberty which inspired your sires to fight for their freedom ought to animate you to-day. The day is not far distant when we will resort to hanging these men. (Applause and cries of ‘Hang them now.’) McCormick is the man who created the row Monday, and he must be held responsible for the murder of our brothers. (Cries of ‘Hang him.’) Don’t make any threats, they are of no avail. Whenever you get ready to do something, do it, and don’t make any threats beforehand. There are in the city to-day between forty and fifty thousand men locked out because they refuse to obey the supreme will or dictation of a small number of men. The families of twenty-five or thirty thousand men are starving because their husbands and fathers are not men enough to withstand and resist the dictation of a few thieves on a grand scale, to put it out of the power of the few men to say whether they should work or not. You place your lives, your happiness, everything, out of the arbitrary power of a few rascals who have been raised in idleness and luxury upon the fruits of your labor. Will you stand that? (Cries of ‘No.’) The press say we are Bohemians, Poles, Russians, Germans—that there are no Americans among us. That is a lie. Every honest American is with us; those who are not are unworthy of their traditions and their forefathers.’

“Spies spoke fifteen or twenty minutes. What I have given here would not represent more than five or six minutes of actual talking.

“Parsons stated first that the remedy for the wrongs of the workingmen was in Socialism; otherwise they would soon become Chinamen. ‘It is time to raise a note of warning. There is nothing in the eight-hour movement to excite the capitalists. Do you know that the military are under arms, and a Gatling gun is ready to mow you down? Is this Germany, Russia or Spain? (A voice: ‘It looks like it.’) Whenever you make a demand for eight hours’ pay, an increase of pay, the militia and the deputy sheriffs and the Pinkerton men are called out, and you are shot and clubbed and murdered in the streets. I am not here for the purpose of inciting anybody, but to speak out, to tell the facts as they exist, even though it shall cost me my life before morning.’ Then he spoke about the Cincinnati demonstration, and about the rifle guard being needed. Then the report continues: ‘It behooves you, as you love your wives and children, if you don’t want to see them perish with hunger, killed, or cut down like dogs on the street, Americans, in the interest of your liberty and your independence, to arm, to arm yourselves. (Applause and cries of ‘We will do it, we are ready now.’) You are not.’ Then the rest of it is the wind-up. Besides what I have stated above he spoke for a long while about the fact that out of every dollar the workingman got fifteen cents, and the capitalists—the employers—got eighty-five cents. When he said, ‘To arms, to arms,’ he said that in his ordinary way of talking. I did not notice any difference in him when he said that.

“The first that I have written out of Fielden’s speech is: ‘There are premonitions of danger—all know it. The press say the Anarchists will sneak away; we are not going to. If we continue to be robbed it will not be long before we will be murdered. There is no security for the working classes under the present social system. A few individuals control the means of living and hold the workingmen in a vise. Everybody does not know that. Those who know it are tired of it, and know the others will get tired of it, too. They are determined to end it and will end it, and there is no power in the land that will prevent them. Congressman Foran says the laborer can get nothing from legislation. He also said that the laborers can get some relief from their present condition when the rich man knew it was unsafe for him to live in a community where there are dissatisfied workingmen, for they would solve the labor problem. I don’t know whether you are Democrats or Republicans, but whichever you are, you worship at the shrine of heaven. John Brown, Jefferson, Washington, Patrick Henry and Hopkins said to the people, “The law is your enemy.” We are rebels against it. The law is only framed for those that are your enslavers. (A voice: ‘That is true.’) Men in their blind rage attacked McCormick’s factory and were shot down by the law in cold blood, in the city of Chicago, in the protection of property. Those men were going to do some damage to a certain person’s interest who was a large property-owner; therefore the law came to his defense; and when McCormick undertook to do some injury to the interest of those who had no property, the law also came to his defense and not to the workingman’s defense, when he, McCormick, attacked him and his living. (Cries of ‘No.’) There is the difference. The law makes no distinctions. A million men hold all the property in this country. The law has no use for the other fifty-four millions. (A voice: ‘Right enough.’) You have nothing more to do with the law except to lay hands on it and throttle it until it makes its last kick. It turns your brothers out on the wayside, and has degraded them until they have lost the last vestige of humanity, and they are mere things and animals. Keep your eye upon it, throttle it, kill it, stab it, do everything you can to wound it—to impede its progress. Remember, before trusting them to do anything for yourself, prepare to do it yourself. Don’t turn over your business to anybody else. No man deserves anything unless he is man enough to make an effort to lift himself from oppression.’

“Then there was an interruption on account of some storm-clouds. Everybody started to go away. Mr. Parsons suggested that they adjourn over to Zepf’s Hall. Fielden said no, the people were trying to get information, and he would go on. And he went on: ‘Is it not a fact that we have no choice as to our existence, for we can’t dictate what our labor is worth? He that has to obey the will of another is a slave. Can we do anything except by the strong arm of resistance? The Socialists are not going to declare war, but I tell you war has been declared upon us; and I ask you to get hold of anything that will help to resist the onslaught of the enemy and the usurper. The skirmish lines have met. People have been shot. Men, women and children have not been spared by the capitalists and minions of private capital. It has no mercy—so ought you. You are called upon to defend yourselves, your lives, your future. What matters it whether you kill yourselves with work to get a little relief, or die on the battle-field resisting the enemy? What is the difference? Any animal, however loathsome, will resist when stepped upon. Are men less than snails or worms? I have some resistance in me; I know that you have, too. You have been robbed, and you will be starved into a worse condition.’

“That is all I have. At that time some one alongside of me asked if the police were coming. I was facing northeast, looked down the street, and saw a file of police about the middle of Randolph Street. At once I put my paper in my pocket and ran right over to the northwest corner of Randolph and Desplaines. Just when I reached the sidewalk, the front rank of the police got to the southwest corner of Randolph and Desplaines. I stood there until some of the police marched by, and the first thing I knew I heard an explosion; and the next thing there was a volley of fifteen or twenty or thirty shots, and I thought it was about time to leave, so I skinned down Randolph Street. While I was running I heard a great lot of shots, and somebody tumbled right in front of me, but I didn’t stop to see whether he was hurt. I didn’t see who shot first. As to the temper of the crowd, it was just an ordinary meeting.”

“My grocery store was closed by the Sheriff under an execution. I worked for Marshall Field before. I had never seen any of the defendants, to my knowledge, before that night, in my life. When I saw Spies and Schwab go into the alley, there was a crowd there. I was standing right near the alley, or alongside north of it, up against the building. I couldn’t see down the alley unless I turned my face to it. The first time I had ever seen Spies was when he got up on the wagon. Spies got out of the wagon and went into Crane’s alley with Schwab. I was right around the corner of the alley within three feet probably at the farthest, and I moved down to within half a foot. I did not look down the alley, only when they came out of the alley I did look. The conversation between Spies and Schwab was in English. I don’t understand German. I didn’t hear any words between ‘police’ and ‘pistols.’ They were in there probably two or three minutes. When I drew up within a foot of the alley, I heard: ‘Do you think one enough, or had we better go for more?’ Going up Randolph Street, I heard some words spoken in German between them, but not in the conversation at the alley. I cannot say that I knew Mr. Schwab’s voice at that time. I only knew Mr. Spies’ voice from what I heard him ask on the wagon. Spies was the one who used the words ‘pistols’ and ‘police.’ I did not see him when he said it. I could not see him without putting my head around the corner. They went out of my sight when they went into the alley. The whole conversation was done in three minutes, I should judge. The first remark that I heard was about a minute and a half after they went into the alley and went out of sight. When they came out and walked south on Desplaines I followed them within a few feet. It was then about a quarter past eight. They walked west on Randolph Street to Halsted, and I trailed after them all the time, part of the time beside them, part of the time ahead, and past them, but all the time close to them. When they came to Halsted there were a few people there, not much of a crowd. I was still tagging after them with no other object than looking for the meeting, to find where the audience was assembled. I don’t know whether they saw me; there was nothing whatever to prevent their seeing me. When they were going west I couldn’t hear a word of what they did say. The street lamps were lighted. When they got down on Halsted there was a crowd, of about twenty-five people. They were right in the thickest of the crowd, and I stood on the sidewalk, about ten feet from them. I didn’t hear either of them say a word. Then they went back east on Randolph Street. I was about six feet behind them. They said nothing. There was nobody else following them besides me. I couldn’t hear what they said until they came to Union Street. Then I got past them. It was light at the time; they could see me. Near Union Street Schwab said: ‘Now, if they come, we will give it to them,’ and Spies said he did not think they would bother them, because they were afraid. This conversation was carried on in the English language. I was behind them when I heard the first of it, but they kind of slackened, and I got by them. I was making my gait quicker to get by them. Schwab finished his remark when I got about three feet by them. Schwab made his remark in an ordinary tone of street conversation, loud enough for me to hear. I heard no more conversation between Schwab and Spies. I testified before the Coroner’s jury. I testified to this conversation at Union Street. If I didn’t, it was an oversight on my part, or it was because nobody asked me any question, but I say that I did say that before the Coroner’s inquest.

“Coming back, I stopped on the northwest corner of Randolph and Desplaines. I was then about ten or fifteen feet ahead of Spies and Schwab. They came up. I can’t say that they were talking. They went right through the street, moving diagonally to the wagon. I staid at the corner. I did not go after them until they got onto the wagon. That was the last time that I saw Schwab. I saw Spies when he got up to make a speech. Oh, no, that wasn’t the last time that I saw Schwab that night. That was the last time that I saw him until they were out of sight and the third man met them. When they started from the corner northeast across the street, I stood at the corner just to let them cross the street. Then I started after them. They did not get out of my sight. I didn’t catch up with them at all. When I got within eight or ten feet of them they were standing on the sidewalk. They stopped right there, about five feet south of the south line of Crane’s alley. There wasn’t probably more than half a dozen people on the east side of the street. There were a good many people on the West Side. It was then about twenty or twenty-five minutes past eight. When I got up within eight or ten feet of them and they stopped, I stopped too, and looked at them. They were in plain view of me. I don’t think they did see me, though they could see me if they looked up. I think there are some electric lights near there, on the Lyceum building. I was between them and the electric light. When they stopped there, the next thing was that they met that third man. I had never seen that third man before. I have seen this picture of Schnaubelt before; I think Mr. Furthmann showed it to me about a week ago. That third party came from the east. He must have been standing up against the house, and he walked west to the front of the sidewalk. Schnaubelt was not facing me; he had his back to me. They did not go into the alley. One had his back south, one east, and Spies had his back north. I didn’t hear what they were talking about. I was on the sidewalk near the curb-stone, partly south, not directly south of them. Spies stood directly to the north, which would bring his back to me. I don’t know but what he did see me. They stood there about thirty seconds. I didn’t hear a word. Spies handed that third man something, who put it into his pocket, and Spies got up on the wagon and made a speech. I did not see Schwab on the wagon. Spies got right up on the wagon and commenced to speak, but one or two minutes elapsed in the time.”

“I saw Mr. Fielden and other defendants in the sweat-box—that is, the cells down-stairs—at the Central Station, about midnight, between the 5th and 6th of May last. I had a conversation with Spies. He said he had been at the Haymarket meeting. He had gone up there to refute the statements of the capitalistic press in regard to what he had said at McCormick’s. Up at McCormick’s he had been talking to a lot of people whom he could not influence—all good Catholics. During his speech on the Haymarket, some people had shown a disposition to hang McCormick. He had told them not to make any threats of that kind. He had said, ‘When you want to do a thing of that kind, don’t talk so much about it, but go out and do it.’ He then said to me that the people had reached a condition where they were willing to do any violence, and he had advocated violence of that kind. It was necessary to bring about the revolution that the Socialists wanted. He said he had advocated the use of dynamite. I asked him if he was in favor of killing police officers with dynamite. He hesitated a little, and then said the police represented the capitalists and were enemies of theirs, and when you have an enemy he has got to be removed. That is the gist of what he said. Spies said he didn’t know anything about the bomb being exploded until afterwards. He had heard a noise that resembled the sound of a cannon, and thought the police were firing over the heads of the people to frighten them. He said he considered all laws as things you could get along without; they were inimical to the best interests of the people and of the social growth. He did not think that dynamite was in his office when he left it, and had an idea that the police put that dynamite there to get a case on him.

“I had a little talk with Mr. Fielden. He was suffering somewhat from his wound. When I asked him how the Haymarket affair accorded with his ideas of Socialism, he said, ‘You are on dangerous ground now. There is an argument, though, that we have, that is to the effect that if you cannot do a thing peaceably, it has got to be done by force.’ Something to that effect; I don’t remember the language. Fielden said, as to the number of Socialists in Chicago, that there were a number of groups here, containing 250 men. Those were recognized Socialists, but they had people from all over the city, from nearly every wholesale house; but those people are afraid to come out yet, only awaiting an opportunity. He spoke about the decision of the Supreme Court prohibiting military companies from marching around with arms. He was inclined to think that the decision was not right.

“I had a short interview with Schwab. All he had to say was that Socialism was right, even with the blood shed at the Haymarket.”

“I am a painter by trade. Reside at 50 North Ann Street. On the evening of May 4 last, I was at the Haymarket meeting on Desplaines Street. I got there about a quarter to ten o’clock. In going home, when I got to the corner of Randolph and Desplaines Streets, I saw a crowd over there, and went up to where the speaking was going on, on the east side of Desplaines Street. I saw the wagon; did not pay particular attention to the speaking. I stood near the lamp-post on the corner of Crane Bros’. alley, between the lamp-post and the wagon, and up near the east end of the wagon for a few minutes. The gentleman here (pointing to Fielden) was speaking when I came there. I staid around there a few minutes, was looking for a party whom I expected to find there, and stepped back into the alley between Crane Bros’. building and the building immediately south of it. The alley was south of the wagon. I was standing in the alley looking around for a few minutes; noticed parties in conversation, right across the alley, on the south side of the alley. Somebody in front of me on the edge of the sidewalk said, ‘Here comes the police.’ There was a sort of rush to see the police come up. There was a man came from the wagon down to the parties that were standing on the south side of the alley. He lit a match and touched it off, something or another—the fuse commenced to fizzle, and he give a couple of steps forward, and tossed it over into the street. He was standing in this direction (illustrating). The man that lit the match on this side of him, and two or three of them stood together, and he turned around with it in his hand, took two or three steps that way, and tossed it that way, over into the street. I knew the man by sight who threw that fizzing thing into the street. I have seen him several times at meetings at one place and another in the city. I do not know his name. He was a man about five feet ten inches high, somewhat full-chested, and had a light sandy beard, not very long. He was full-faced, his eyes set somewhat back in his head. Judging from his appearance, he would probably weigh 180 pounds. My impression is his hat was dark brown or black; I don’t know whether it was a soft hat, a felt hat or a stiff hat. This here (indicating photograph of Schnaubelt heretofore identified) is the man that threw the bomb out of the alley. There were four or five standing together in the group. This here (pointing to Spies) is the man who came from the wagon toward the group.

“I did not see the police myself, there were so many people between me and them. I don’t recollect any declaration from any of the police officers about this person—nothing distinctly, anyway. That man over there (pointing at defendant Fischer) was one of the parties. After the bomb was thrown these parties immediately left through the alley. I stood there. The firing commenced immediately afterwards, and my attention was attracted by the firing, and I paid more attention to that than anything else.”

“I know the Coroner’s jury was investigating the matter. I saw an account of the investigation of the grand jury in the paper. I first told a man by the name of Allen and another party whom I don’t know, and a reporter of the Times, that I saw the match lighted, and saw the man who threw the bomb. I think that it was two or three days after the 4th of May. A number of people were talking the matter over on the west side of the City Hall, on La Salle Street, and I made the remark that I believed if I ever saw the party who threw the bomb I could identify him. They didn’t ask me why I made that remark. I don’t think they asked me any questions, what I knew about the matter. The reporter afterwards told me he had heard the remark. I think that was on the 6th of May. On May 5th, I was working on the corner of Twentieth Street and Wabash Avenue. On the 6th of May I went down to 88 La Salle Street to collect a bill. I went across the street, and there had the conversation with the reporter and the others. That night I had a note left at my room for me to come down to the Central Station. The name of James Bonfield was signed to the note. I went to the Central Station and had a conversation with Mr. Bonfield the next day; I couldn’t tell exactly whether on the 6th or the 7th. I made my statement to Mr. Bonfield. I never appeared before a Coroner’s jury; was never subpoenaed to appear before any Coroner’s jury that examined any of the dead policemen. I was at the Haymarket meeting about fifteen minutes from the time I got there to the explosion of the bomb. I was looking for a person who had told me he was going to the meeting. I kept looking through the crowd to see if I could find him. Fielden was speaking then. I don’t remember anything of his speech, except that he made use of the word McCormick. Before I went down-town I had read in the paper that there had been a riot at McCormick’s the day before, and that the police had shot some men. I was in the neighborhood of where Fielden talked for about fifteen minutes. I don’t remember anything about the connection in which Fielden spoke of McCormick. I was looking for a gentleman by the name of Richard Roe, and didn’t pay any attention to what Fielden said. When I stepped into the alley I think I was on the north side of the alley, about eight feet from the corner of Crane’s building. That group of men was right across the alley on the south side. The lamp was burning on the corner of the alley at that time, and it shone right down. I could see the persons in that party distinctly; could see their countenances; they could see myself. They were also about eight or nine feet from the mouth of the alley. I could hear them talk. They spoke German. I didn’t understand them. Before the man came from the wagon I stepped across the alley and was standing on the north side of the alley, perhaps three or four feet to the east of that group, so that I was standing about twelve or fourteen feet from the mouth of Crane’s alley. I did not say that I saw the wagon from that point. I could just see the hind end of the wagon from where I stood when I went through the alley. I think there was a tail-board. The edges of the box of the wagon were perhaps ten inches high. I don’t know whether there were side-boards on that wagon or not; I could not say positively as to the width of the side-boards on the wagon. They might have been higher than ten inches. I am sure there was a box of some kind on the wagon. My impression is it was a wagon about twelve or thirteen feet long, with low side-boards on. I didn’t see anybody get off of the wagon after I went in the alley. I did not say Mr. Spies got down off the wagon. I said he came from towards the wagon. I saw him standing on the sidewalk before I went in the alley. I did not say I saw Spies in the wagon at all. Mr. Spies is the man that came down in the alley and lighted the bomb, to the best of my recollection. When I saw him standing on the sidewalk he was talking with somebody. I would be inclined to think it was this gentleman here (indicating Schwab). I could not say for sure. I think it was a dark-complexioned man. My impression is it might be him. I have very little doubt but Fischer is the man I saw in the group. I am very nearly as positive that Fischer is the man as I am that the picture is the picture of the man who threw the bomb. I am sure Fischer is the man. I think I saw Mr. Parsons there that night talking to some ladies. I had been down to the Palmer House that evening to see some gentlemen from Des Moines that I understood were in the city. One of them was Judge Cole, another was ex-Gov. Samuel Merrill. I didn’t find either of them there. I went to the meeting, as I thought I would meet Mr. Roe, and we would go home together. That was the only business I had with Mr. Roe. It would have been eight or nine blocks from the Haymarket to where I lived.

“I did not run at the time of the shooting. I did not move at all. I stood right at the mouth of the alley. After it was all over I backed out the alley, took a car and went home. There were no bullets coming in around my locality in the alley. On the street-car on my way home I didn’t talk with anybody about the occurrence. There were quite a number of people in the car talking about the Haymarket occurrence, and there was considerable excitement in the car on account of it. The next morning I went down on the Wabash Avenue car to the corner of Twentieth Street and Wabash Avenue.

“I heard people speak about the Haymarket affair in the restaurant, on Madison Street, where I took my breakfast. I did not say to them anything about my seeing the match lighted and the bomb thrown. I bought the News on the car. I think I was working for Frank Crandle that day; to the best of my recollection, there was only one man working with me on the job. We worked alongside of each other some time. Talked about different things, about our business. I did not say to him that I saw the bomb thrown, nor that I saw the man light the match that lit the bomb. I told him I had been at the Haymarket and spoke of the Haymarket riot, and I think I said there were a number killed or wounded. In the evening I went home on the Wabash Avenue car. People were speaking about the Haymarket meeting in the car. I didn’t tell them I knew anything about it. I think I got home about half past six. I had no conversation with the landlady. After my supper, my impression is I went to Mr. Roe’s house. He was not at home. I stayed there about fifteen minutes talking with Mrs. Roe. Her daughter, about twelve or thirteen years old, was present during the conversation. We talked about the Haymarket meeting. I told her I was there. She said she would not let Mr. Roe go to the meeting. I did not tell her nor anybody on that occasion that I saw the bomb lighted and thrown. Since noon adjournment I had no talk with James Bonfield.”

“Were not you just now walking back and forth in the corridor with him?”

“I did not have no—“

“Didn’t you walk back and forth?”

“Yes, sir.”

“You were talking to him?”

“Yes, sir.”

“When I was at Central Station, I think, both Inspector Bonfield and Lieut. Kipley were present when I made the statement that I could recognize the man, if I ever saw him again, who threw the bomb. Afterwards I told all the details to Mr. Grinnell. I explained matters more to him than to anybody else. I would not be positive that I told Mr. Bonfield I saw the man light the match. I gave a description of the man that I saw throw the bomb. I think the man had a black or blue sack coat on. I think he had black eyes, and somewhat light whiskers. The bomb went in a westerly direction. I have seen Mr. Spies the last year and a half, and knew him by sight, not by name. I heard him speak at public meetings, seen him very frequently, but never knew his name. I heard him once on Market Street, a year ago last spring. I did not inquire who it was that spoke. I knew from hearing him and reading the papers that Spies was one of the speakers. I frequently heard the name of August Spies. At the time I had the conversation with Bonfield I described to him as well as I could the man that struck the match and lighted the fuse. It was either Bonfield or one of the officers in the Central Station. They were all together. I was twice over at police headquarters. This picture here (photograph of Schnaubelt) was shown to me first some time last week, at the State’s Attorney’s office. I was in the city during the time the Coroner’s jury was examining into the cause of the death of different policemen, and at the time the grand jury was examining into this case. The officers knew my name and address. They never called on me to go before the grand jury or the Coroner’s jury.

“The man who threw the bomb was about five feet and eight, ten or nine inches high. I don’t think he was a man over six feet tall. The first time I told Mr. Grinnell of my experience at the Haymarket was when I made my second visit to the Central Station, on Sunday after the Haymarket meeting. I think at that time I only told Mr. Grinnell that I could identify the person that threw the bomb, if I saw him. I think I told him at that time that I saw one man strike a match and light the fuse, and another man throw the bomb. Mr. Fischer was brought in while we had the conversation at the Central Station. I looked at him. I said nothing about his being the man that struck the match. I knew him by sight. I identified him as being one of the men who composed the group in the alley.

“I received some money two or three times when I have been over here from Mr. James Bonfield—ten or fifteen cents, sometimes a quarter. At the conversation at Central Station I was not told that I was wanted as a witness before the grand jury. I saw the picture of Rudolph Schnaubelt about six weeks ago, when Mr. Grinnell sent for me. I did not tell any person at any time, except the officers that I mentioned, that I saw the act of lighting the bomb accomplished. Neither Mr. Grinnell nor Bonfield, nor any other officer, told me to keep silent in regard to the matter.

“I am six feet three in height. I could pretty near see right over the head of the fellow who threw the bomb. When I gave a description of the man who came from the wagon and lighted the match that lit the fuse they did not bring out Mr. Spies for me to look at. Spies had kind of dark clothes on that night. His hat was black or brown. My impression is it was a limber-rimmed hat. I first told Mr. Grinnell one day last week that this is the man that struck the match, when I saw him sitting here in court. I think Mr. Fischer had on a blue sack-coat that night. I think he had a black necktie. If Schnaubelt had any necktie that night it was a very light one. Spies had a turn-down collar that night and not any necktie. I think the upper buttons of Mr. Schnaubelt’s coat were buttoned. I think Spies had one or two buttons of his coat buttoned up when he came from the wagon into the alley.”

“I am police captain of the Fifth Precinct. My headquarters are at East Chicago Avenue Station. I have charge of two other stations besides. Have been connected with the force for eighteen years. Have been captain one year. I have seen Spies, Schwab, Neebe and Fischer. Had no personal acquaintance with them. The defendants Engel and Lingg were arrested and confined in my station. Lingg was arrested on May 14th; Engel about the 18th. I had my first conversation with Lingg about this case about three o’clock on the afternoon of May 14th. Lingg told me his name, and that he had lived at 442 Sedgwick Street. He had been out of work for about four weeks. I asked him whether he was at the meeting held in the basement of 54 West Lake Street on Monday night, and he said, ‘Yes.’ On Tuesday night, May 4th, he said, he was at home—not all the evening. He and Seliger had been on Larrabee Street, quite a ways north; had had several glasses of beer, and from there he went home. He said he had made some bombs to use them himself. He said he had reason for being down on the police; they had clubbed him out at McCormick’s. He said he was down on capitalists, and found fault with the police for taking the part of the capitalists. If the capitalists turned out the militia and the police force with their Gatling guns, they couldn’t do anything with revolvers, and therefore they had adopted these bombs and dynamite. He said he had learned to make bombs in scientific books of warfare published by Most, of New York. He had got his dynamite on Lake Street, somewhere near Dearborn, and had bought some fuse and caps, and told me what he paid for it. He had not used up all his dynamite. He said he had made bombs of gas-pipe, and also of metal and lead mixed. He found the gas-pipe on the street sometimes. The lead he got about the same way. He said the bombs they found in his place were all he made. We put Mrs. Seliger face to face with him, and she accused him that he had commenced making bombs a few weeks after he came to their house. He looked at the woman, but didn’t say anything. John Thielen, who was arrested at the time, faced him too. Lingg admitted he had given to Thielen the two cigar-boxes full of dynamite and the two bombs which Officer Hoffman brought to me; at the same time Lingg looked right square at Thielen and shook his head for him to keep still. Thielen said to him, ‘Never mind, you might as well tell it. They know it all, anyhow.’

“In Lingg’s trunk I discovered a false bottom, and in there I found two long cartridges of dynamite, and some fuse four inches long, with caps on, and a big coil of fuse. I asked Lingg if that was the dynamite he used in his bombs, and he said yes. The dynamite in the package is lighter in quality than what was found in his bombs, except one that was black. I got three kinds of dynamite. That in the gallon-box that Lehman testified was given to him by Lingg looked like charcoal; the dynamite in the trunk was white, and the dynamite in most of those bombs is dark-colored. Lingg said he had tried a round bomb and a long one in the open air somewhere, and they worked well. He put one right in the crotch of a tree and split it all up. He said he had known Spies for some time. He had been at the Arbeiter-Zeitung office about five times, bringing reports of Socialistic and Anarchistic meetings to the Arbeiter-Zeitung. He stated he had been financial secretary of a branch of the Carpenters’ Union. He had been a Socialist ever since he could think. He told me he had been in this country since last July or August; he had been a Socialist in Europe.”

“Now give the conversation which you had with Engel.”

“Engel said, in the first conversation that I had with him, that on Monday, 3d of May, he was doing some fresco work for a friend by the name of Koch, somewhere out west. He had been for a little while at the 54 West Lake Street meeting that night, but made no speech there.

“Several days afterwards I had another conversation, when his wife and daughter came. Engel complained that his cell was dark and no water running in it, and I told him we would give him another cell if we had it. The cells were crowded right along that night. And his wife said, ‘Do you see now what trouble you got yourself into?’ and Engel answered, ‘Mamma, I can’t help it.’ I asked him why he didn’t stop that nonsense, and he said: ‘I promised my wife so many times that I would stop this business, but I can’t stop it. What is in me has got to come out. I can’t help it that I am so gifted with eloquence. It is a curse. It has been a curse to a good many other men. A good many men have suffered already for the same cause, and I am willing to suffer and will stand it like a man.’ And I think he mentioned Louise Michel as having taken a leading part in the Anarchist business. Engel said on the evening of May 4th he was at home tying on the lounge.

“I have experimented with all dynamite that was brought me; also the bombs. I gave a portion of the lead bomb which Officer Schuettler testified he found in Lingg’s room to Professor Haines. I took the dynamite from that bomb and put the dynamite in a piece of gas-pipe, about five inches long, with ends screwed on. I had a box made two feet square, of inch boards, pretty well nailed together, and we dug a hole three feet deep out at Lake View, in the bushes, put the box into the hole, cut a hole in the top of the box, let the bomb into it, put a fuse and cap to it, and touched it off. This was found as the result of the explosion (indicating fragments). The box was blown all to pieces, and some of the pieces flew up in the trees. Everything in that box was smashed to pieces. This bomb here (indicating) I have made in the same way, and filled it with some black dynamite from that gallon can which was given by Lingg to Lehman, as stated here. This here (indicating fragments of the exploded bomb) was the result of the examination. I put some dynamite also in a beer keg. It smashed the keg all to pieces.

“Now here are the fragments from a lead bomb which Lehman gave to Hoffman and Hoffman to me. We got a piece of boiler-iron a quarter of an inch thick, nineteen inches high, and thirty-four inches wide. Then we had a steel top weighing 140 pounds. On the ground I put two-inch plank. On top of the plank I put four large metal sheets. I put the bomb right in the center, and a big stone weighing about 125 pounds on top, and the inside of the boiler-iron, the tub, I had painted so we could see where the lead would strike. I touched it off myself. It knocked the tub away up in the air, and the stone on top was crushed all to pieces. This is the result of the lead after we picked it up on top of the boards (indicating fragments of the tub). Here is the bolt (indicating) that was on the bomb. The nut we did not find. I counted 195 places where the lead struck the painted boiler-iron. There is a crack clear through the boiler-iron. In six places it is bulged out. Professor Haines has got a piece of this bomb (indicating), and Professor Patton another piece. I gave to the professors pieces of metal from other bombs.

“Lingg in his conversations with me said there would likely be a revolution through this workingmen’s trouble. There was a satchel brought from Neff’s place. The satchel was filled with bombs. Thielen was present. I asked him if he brought the satchel there. He said he saw the satchel there, saw it stand there when he left, and that was the last he saw of it. Lingg said he made the molds to make these bombs himself. He made them of clay, and that they could be used to cast in only about twice. He said he saw the ‘Revenge’ circular on the West Side, I believe at 71 West Lake Street. I asked him when he had had his hair trimmed and his chin beard shaved. He said on or about the 7th of May. He said there had been several persons in his room on the afternoon of May 4th, among them the two Lehmans.

“I experimented with fuse. I cut a fuse four inches long and set it on fire, and you could count just six until it struck the cap within. I experimented with dynamite cartridges. I drilled a hole in one end about an inch and a half deep, shoved a percussion cap in, put a fuse on, and exploded it. I had it stand free up in the air in a stone weighing about twenty or thirty pounds. When it went off it broke the stone all up. I put one right in the center of a lot of shrubs and bushes, and it broke everything up—took around about four feet each way.”

“I am professor of chemistry in Rush Medical College in this city. I devote most of my time to practical chemistry. I have examined several pieces of metal at the request of the State’s Attorney. I received from Capt. Schaack, on June 24 this year, a piece of bomb said to have been connected with Lingg. I call it ‘Lingg bomb No. 1.’ I received from Dr. J. B. Murphy, on the same day, a piece of metal said to have been taken from Officer Murphy. I designate it ‘Murphy bomb.’ On July 22 I received a piece of metal said to have been taken from Officer Degan. I designate it ‘Degan bomb.’ The last piece I received from Mr. Furthmann. I subsequently received from Officer Whalen a piece of bomb said to have been connected with Lingg. I designate it ‘Lingg bomb No. 2,’ The next day I received from Capt. Schaack pieces of two other bombs also said to have been connected with Lingg. I designate as ‘Lingg bombs Nos. 3 and 4.’ I received from Mr. Furthmann a portion of a bomb said to have been connected with Mr. Spies, which I designate as ‘Spies bomb.’ These were all subjected to chemical examination. Lingg bombs Nos. 1, 3 and 4 were found to consist chiefly of lead, with a small percentage of tin and traces of antimony, iron and zinc. The amount of tin in these three bombs differs slightly. One of them contained about 1.9 per cent., another about 2.4 per cent., the third about 2½ per cent. of tin. Lingg bomb No. 2 contained more tin, consequently less lead; also a little more antimony and a little more zinc. The amount of tin in this bomb was very nearly seven per cent. The Murphy bomb was composed of a small proportion of tin, chiefly lead and traces of antimony, iron and zinc. The amount of tin was in round numbers 1.6 per cent. The Degan bomb contained in round numbers 1.6 or 1.7 per cent. The remainder was lead, with traces of antimony, iron and zinc. The Spies bomb consisted chiefly of lead with a small quantity of tin, about 1.1 per cent., in round numbers, with traces of antimony, iron and zinc. The different pieces of the same bomb differed slightly in the proportions of the metals present. The Degan bomb contained slightly more tin than what I call the Murphy bomb. There is no commercial substance with which I am acquainted that has such a composition as these bombs. Commercial lead frequently contains traces of other substances, but, as far as I know, never tin. Solder is composed of from a third to a half tin and the remainder lead. Lead must have been the basis for the preparation of the various articles which I examined, and this must have been mixed either with tin or some substance containing tin, as for instance solder.

“Lingg bomb No. 2 had a minute trace of copper. This piece of candlestick (indicating) is composed of tin and lead, with a certain amount of antimony and zinc and a little copper. Professor Patton has been sick for about two weeks. I worked in connection with Professor Delafontaine instead of working with Patton.” (The Spies bomb is the one which the witness Wilkinson identified.)

“I am County Physician. I made a post-mortem examination upon the body of Mathias J. Degan, on the 5th day of May last, before the Coroner’s inquest, at the Cook County Hospital. I found a deep cut upon his forehead, another cut over the right eye and another deep cut, about two inches in length, on the left side. I found a large wound, apparently a gun-shot wound—a hole in the middle of the left thigh. I found seven explosive marks on his right leg and two on the left leg. The large hole in the middle of the left thigh was the mortal wound caused by an explosive, a piece of lead that had penetrated the skin, destroyed the inside muscles and lacerated the femoral artery, which caused bleeding to death. Besides that he had a wound on the dorsum of the left foot, also caused by a piece of lead, which forced its way through the bones of the ankle joint. I found a piece behind the inside ankle of the left foot. Both pieces I gave to Mr. Furthmann. The external appearance of that wound on that left thigh was that of a rifle ball. It was round and not very ragged; it was clean cut through the skin, but the muscles of the thigh were all contused and torn—formed a kind of pulpy cavity as large as a goose egg on the inside. The missile was lodged in the upper part of the thigh, about four inches above the place where it entered. Mathias J. Degan died of hemorrhage of the femoral artery, caused by this wound that I described.

“I made a post-mortem examination on the body of John Barrett on the 7th of May, at 171 East Chicago Avenue. A missile had passed through the eleventh rib into the upper part of the liver, about three inches deep. There I found a piece of lead and a piece of blue cloth with lining in. The right lung was collapsed. From the opening into the diaphragm the air rushed into the cavity of the chest and compressed the lung. In consequence of the wound in the liver there was a good deal of hemorrhage into the chest as well as into the abdomen. This wound, by this explosive piece of material, was the cause of his death. He had several other wounds.

“On the same day I made a post-mortem examination on the body of George F. Muller, at the Cook County Hospital. This man died, in my opinion, from the effects of a pistol ball which wounded the small intestines and caused inflammation of the bowels.

“On May 8th I made a post-mortem examination on the body of Tim Flavin. He had a small wound in the back four inches to the left of the spine. The missile, which was not a pistol ball, passed into the abdomen below the twelfth rib. I found much blood in both cavities, and the cause of his death was internal hemorrhage.

“On May 10th I made a post-mortem examination on the body of Michael Sheehan. He died from exhaustion caused by a pistol shot wound upon the right side of the abdomen, three inches to the right and four inches above the umbilicus. The ball passed through the mesentary and lower part of the liver into the muscles of the abdomen. There was considerable blood in the abdomen and the liver. The surroundings were very much inflamed.

“On May 17th I made a post-mortem examination on the body of Thomas Redden, at the Cook County Hospital. I found an abrasion over the right eye, a slight lacerated wound upon the lower part of the left hip, a large lacerated wound perforating the right forearm, a compound fracture of the left tibia, a large lacerated wound upon the posterior part of the left leg, a circular wound upon the right leg two inches below the knee joint, extending to the bone, another wound upon the right leg about seven inches above the ankle, a large lacerated wound upon the left side of the back. I found the lungs badly inflamed and the blood valves enlarged above the kidneys, and the liver somewhat inflamed with so-called cloudy swelling. In my opinion he died from the effects of these wounds bringing about blood-poisoning.”